Blog-post about him from one of the guys (Harsh Vardhan) in his friend list[/added]
This post is result of the mixed feelings I have after reading BD's and Varun's posts on this matter. I feel sad for the boy and his family/friends, angry at ToI, the IIT authorities but more so on the Indian education system.
From the HT article:
About a week before he committed suicide last Wednesday, Vijay Nukala (22) got the worst news of his life: he would have to repeat a year at IIT. It wasn’t because the final year engineering physics student wasn’t good enough academically — it was because of the letters XX marked against his name.
Last year, the authorities at IIT, Powai, became extremely strict about enforcing a rule that meant final year students with less than 80 per cent attendance would be failed regardless of how they fared at the examinations at the end of a 16-week semester. In fact, they are not allowed to sit for the exams if there is a shortfall in attendance. And their names carry the XX appendage: two seemingly innocuous letters that translate to one lost year in a student’s life.
About the 'system'
Poor guy had more interest in Computers than Physics. Well, he could have taken Computer Science at a non-IIT institute and fulfilled his dream of learning more about Computers. But, alas, the Indian system! Peer pressure or social coaxing might have forced him to join IIT. Or maybe the IIT name got into him. Afterall, who would not want to study from an IIT!
I hate this Indian mentality. First, we are taught that only Medical and Engineering are good professions. Then, we are incessantly reminded of the fact that IITs are the elite institutes and if you choose engineering - you must try to do it from the IITs. Yep, no regard to whats your interest and dreams or which branch you should pick. Many students make this mistake - choosing to go with any branch in IIT instead of taking up their dream-branch in a non-IIT institute. I have even read suggestions by IITians (on orkut) to prospective students that - hey, its IIT man! The branch doesn't matter. Atleast you will get the IIT stamp!. To quote the HT article again:
But faculty advisors repeatedly told Nukala that he should focus on his academic subject rather than his subject of interest. “Once he graduated, he could have easily have pursued information technology,” said a faculty member.Isn't something strange here? The Physics faculty also knows that many of their students are not really interested in Physics. Something needs to be done.
If among the 50 students in physics batch - on an average if only 10 are really interested in physics - then reduce the number of seats to 10! Why try to teach physics to students who don't really want to study physics? Fight the urge to increase the seats in IIT. We don't need that!
[added]
About IIT authorities
As mentioned in Varun's blog - the IIT authorities are trying to act normal. Even though it is not a "normal" situation. No offical announcements, no condolence meetings, no discussions. I expected that. Thats how it used to happen in IIT KGP too. Sick?
Now about this 80% attendence rule. Are these guys nuts? Is this high school? There are so many students who have genuine reasons to not attend the classes.
a> Many professors suck at teaching. They may be pretty brilliant at their subjects - but lets face it, they don't know how to teach. Only a few of them do. And more importantly, why not let the poor students sit in the exam? If you think that attending classes is SO important for the understanding of this subject - then the exam results should reflect it, right? So let them attend the exams and prove it to them. And again, 80%! Are you kidding me?
b> Final year is the time when students focus more on other important things - like BTech project, job interviews, CAT preparations, Apping. 80% attendance! Huh.
And why so many rules? They think they can generate interest in the subjects by forcing students to attend the lectures? How about improving the teaching standards for a change? How about offering a more variety of courses to generate interest? How about giving the students a little more freedom to choose their subjects? I don't know the real circumstances in this case - but in my view during the final year the students should have no core courses and all electives. The electives also should be inter-disciplinary. Afterall the physics faculty know that many of their students will take up IT as the career choice after IIT. So whats the use teaching them more hardcore physics courses? Let them choose electives in IT/Computers after teaching them the fundamentals. The students who are really interested in physics will take your hardcore physics courses.
About increased computer usage
Agreed that it affects academic performance. But its foolish to think that abolishing computers or gaming or internet from the campus will improve things any further. Students who don't want to study will find other ways to spend their time. Students who do want to study will study despite all the games.
The problem is not computers.
About Times of India
Choosing a sensitive topic and giving it such irresponsible coverage is a hallmark of the ToIlet paper of India. I don't disagree with the fact that increased computer usage might have had an impact on Vijay Nukula's academic performance. But I fail to understand that why didn't the reported tried to go deeper into the roots of the problem instead of just believing what the IIT authorities told her? And if she thinks that thats not her part of the job - then why give a title like 'Hacking take toll of IITians'? Why give out the message to the whole nation that increased computer usage is the real reason for the suicide - when its probably just one of the reasons - that too a superficial one?
Hell, I don't even feel like commenting more on the pioneer of Desi Dork Media
The post was edited following ted's comments.
16 comments:
A really insightful post Ritesh.
The IIT council should reboot itself. Rethink on the rigid and traditional educational curriculum.
Most suicides take place due to disillusionment rather than academic pressure.
i agree absobloodylutely much
with both urs and bds posts
it's sad wat happened
but it;s shocking hw media has handled it
iitb, ah...it cd appen anywhere, but the wway it's been projected, as if iits promote it AND condemn it
why is everything so hypocritical..
it's a fact that if a prof is really ogoo,d his classes are always full evenif they are at 7 in the morning, and regardless of whether he takes attendance !
y cant ppl get this basic fact clear1
Poor guy had more interest in Computers than Physics.
Is it so ?
How many of us really had any sort of knowledge about any branch of engineering before joining IIT ? None whatsoever. So blaming his family for forcing him to join IIT is totally unjustified. Most probably his great liking developed after joining IIT.
Attendance ... i didn't attend many classes in my final year. But after coming to IIM i have realized what a boon attendance rules can be, if strictly enforced. IITs still have 75 or 80 percent attendance rules, which allow people to bunk some classes which makes sure they cannot understand the subsequent ones. But when you sit through courses where you know that even one bunk can result in a fail, you will attend, and learn.
There is a basic information assymetry here. We, the consumers of education, don't have adequate knowledge about the product (education). So we perceive it to be worth less than what it actually is (similar to lemon's problem in economics) and hence think its ok to miss classes. The institution, the supplier of the product, is the one who really knows its worth. Their reputation rests on the students ... and so making attendance compulsory is needed ... and it helps ... i have seen it.
@ted:
I am sorry about the family thing. I don't know the truth and so I shouldn't speculate (just like what I am asking ToI to do). I removed that sentence.
Added one para more because of the point you raised about 'interest'. The problem is solvable. Just like they do it in IIMs!
About attendance, its not correct to compare IIM with IIT. There are some differences:
1> I am sure IIM profs are better than IIT profs. I have heard this from two of my friends and thats why I am claiming so.
2> The students are also more 'responsible' once they are in graduate (masters) courses. As kiddo mentioned in her post - the age factor comes into play here. In graduate studies, the students are usually much more sincere and career-oriented than at undergraduate level.
Maybe something can be done about #2. May be 'responsibility' can be inculcated in students from the undergraduate level. But that requires again two things:
1> More 'responsible' and 'caring' professors.
2> Much smaller class sizes.
This was a wonderful post!
Media: Yes, I agree with you on this. It's not only the TOI however. Most of them failed to spread the right message.
Attendance: It is true that junta will attend the class of a really good Prof even if he takes it at 7 in the morning and even if he doesn't take any attendance. Absolutely agreed. But I still vote for a minimum compulsory attendance. Well, this might not be the most ideal way to motivate students to learn a subject that they are expected to learn, but this definitely is the only thing that works in today's scenario.
A bad Prof who cannot teach doesn't indicate that the course he is taking is bad as well. The system would have had agreed to your bunking his classes if there had been a way to prove them that you indeed studied the course back in your hostel rooms, while you missed the classes. Few exams cannot determine this. But yes, a lot of surprise tests throughout the semester might be an alternative. You will have to believe me on this that given a choice, students actually opt for the former option than surprise tests.
To sum it up, a suicide or two is not enough to call for a removal of this system of attendance because it sure has it's own benefits.
The institution, the supplier of the product, is the one who really knows its worth. Their reputation rests on the students ... and so making attendance compulsory is needed
So having a couple of dead students doesn't impact reputation? Do you seriously believe that the reputation of an institute is worth much more than human life? I also don't buy the education assymetry argument. Students who are 21 and 22 surely know the worth of their degrees (especially if they are going to pass out from IIT).
Ritesh, you are bang on the point regarding the physics/cs courses. It reflects poorly on IIT's grasp of market forces and the demand for CS graduates. As you rightly say, why not increase the size of the intake to 100 or whatever the number and bring the intake for other subjects inline with demand.
@bharath
Do you seriously believe that the reputation of an institute is worth much more than human life? I also don't buy the education assymetry argument. Students who are 21 and 22 surely know the worth of their degrees (especially if they are going to pass out from IIT).
Are you seriously blaming IIT's policies for the suicide ? :o
Laughable.
By the same logic you should blame the govt if somebody loses everything in the stock market and commits suicide ... or if somebody dies because of a road accident, or hold the employer responsible if an employee commits suicide because of excess workload.
IIT had a set of rules ... which were not outlandish, others are able to follow them easily ... and the concerned person knew of it beforehand. I fail to see how IIT can be held accountable.
Students know the worth of their degrees but not what they are expected to learn. Haven't we ever questioned why we are doing this course ? More often than not, it is the perception the students have that is flawed.
Regarding taking more students in CS and less in Physics, the number cannot be determined by the demand alone. The facilities also play a role.
@ritz
Completely agree with the paragraph that you added. Such a step will surely alleviate a part of the problem. It will also eliminate the requirement of giving ranks ... like IIM's we can have a list of selected candidates and those waitlisted.
I don't know why IIT doesn't implement it, given that the first year courses are common anyway.
I agree IIM profs are better ... but class sizes are not a factor. First year classes here are bigger in size than in IIT.
The responsibility of students here is only partly determined by age. Work experience is a big factor ... and the environment here forces you to become more responsible. But would it be unfair to expect 4th year IITians to be mature ?
Are you seriously blaming IIT's policies for the suicide ? :o
No, I am not blaming IIT's policies. Atleast not rightaway. But if the trend of people committing suicides on campus and leaving behind hints that the somehow the practices of the institution are partially responsible increases, IIT may have to start sharing the blame.
It would have to rethink about the way courses are conducted and students marked and graded. It may eventually have to rethink about the way admissions are made to its courses. Everyone in the current generation knows the kind of pressure a person is under when studying and appearing for JEE.
By the same logic you should blame the govt if somebody loses everything in the stock market and commits suicide ... or if somebody dies because of a road accident, or hold the employer responsible if an employee commits suicide because of excess workload.
Oh, come now. Are you seriously suggesting that the government has no role in providing clean and motorable roads that minimize the chances of an accident or that an employer has every right to saddle an employee with so much load that it breaks him down?
More often than not, it is the perception the students have that is flawed.
I am sorry but I simply fail to understand this point. Maybe you could explain it a little better.
Regarding taking more students in CS and less in Physics, the number cannot be determined by the demand alone. The facilities also play a role.
I am disappointed that a student of an IIM has such a narrow understanding of demand, market forces and competition. IIT knows that the demand for CS is much much more that Physics, so what's stopping them from creating facilties that enable more students to study CS? They certainly don't lack funds (especially with the alumni they have).
Single most important reason that a student given the choice between studying the dream course in a non-IIT college and at IIT is economic - a non-IIT does not have the brand recoginitiona which IIT has. Show me another undergraduate college in India which gives you a job 8 months before you graduate. A couple more reasons, infrastructure - no other undergraduate college in India comes close both in terms of academic and non-academic infrastructure. And the opportunity of hanging out with the smartest kids in the country. These three would far outweight choosing a non-IIT college.
IIT Kgp (I do not know about other IITs so I cannot comment) at least gives you the chance of aiming for another department even if your rank was not that high when you got in and many of my peers did that.
I faced the same dilemma when I joined IIT Kgp - I did not get the department that I liked and my grades weren't good enough after the first year to make that change. But I am absoultey certain that no other college in India would give me that experience.
@ Bharath ...
My point was that the person knew very well what the rules were ... so blaming IIT policies is unjustified. IIT may not have the perfect admission system or course design, but that is better left for another discussion.
I am not an expert in economics, but from what i know i think you cannot add facilities (capital) continuously. The seats in the in-demand branches have gone up substantially from say 10 years back ... its not totally fair to blame IITs for not being able to keep up with the rise in demand.
@Anonymous
Show me another undergraduate college in India which gives you a job 8 months before you graduate.
1> I wish all of us would look at the long term effects of our actions instead of the short term ones! True, the IIT tag gets you places which you wouldn't have gotten if from an non-IIT college. True, it gives you job right after college. But how long will the IIT tag help? 2-4 years at max. It will not matter after that.
2> An IITian doing BTech from a non-so-great branch (of not his interest) and doing an IT job after it. Another guy taking up Computer Science at a non-IIT college and doing a IT job right after it. So is there any difference between them once they start their job career? Infact, if he had done Comp Sci from another college - atleast he would have one more option open - of studying abroad. Also, he would have had far more knowledge than a non-CompSci guy even if from IIT.
So how is it any better?
Of course, the best thing about IITs is the crowd and you get to be with the cream of the nation. If thats a reason enough for you to choose a bizzare branch - cool!
Let me put some of my thought on the subject.
1> Regarding attendance:- Why should a student attend classes if they are tought for the sake of teaching. And unfortunately most of the classes are taken for the sake of teaching. Suppose you are interested in being a IT-professional or say an Management-guru, from where do you get enough interest to attend a class tought on Advanced quantum mechanics. The question is "what is the point of studing". I personally think It doesn't make any sense of making 80% class compulsory for any course. I have a rare oppurtunity to have class with the toppers of whole IITKGP, and belive-it-or-not all most all of them sleeps in the class if it became boaring.
2> Reagrding Use of Computer:- Excessive use of computer in-no-way hamper once study. It just opens-up another oppurtunity for a student to explore other areas of him, where he can find some interest. It doesn't matter whether he plays game, hack, listen music or anything, but atleast it create an oppurtunity for exploring urself. What else a student will do at a place like IIT where he is forced into a dept which he doesn't like to study, a exterme-low-non-male ratio, and n number other not-so-favouring things
I did like to comment on the statement made by the author of this blog on allowing the kid to persue what he likes instead of doing whatever in IIT.
I am myself an EP (Engg Phys) alumni at IITB, and as far as I know the program which is a four year B.Tech program, does not have many seats, around 14 to begin with, but during my year we were inall 19, after a number of students did what they call branch change to EP. I do not know the situation now but I presume the number of B.Tech seats still are on the order of 15-20, which is appropriate for the level of demand for the course.
Regarding persuing computers, well coming to grad school in US, one wonders really what mattered what ones undergraduate background was. As far as i know, out of 17 or so people from my year coming to states, a few are majoring in Physic (PhD), a number in electrical couple in Computer science and one in Math and one in Computational Neurobiology.
Given this diversity, I surely approve of students persuing an oppurutunity to study in IIT if possible and as one grows up, one can easily choose any of many oppurtunities there are to persue career in.
As far as suicide,by the boy, as sad it is, it could have been avoided. Such events ususlly are matter of rush premature action under depression signs of which are not hard to catch if given some attention.
Regarding media coverage one word suffices, "TOIlet"..
It was really a good analysis, and rightly points out at our choked media's irresponsibility towards the issue.
I DON'T believe that rules like 80% attendance is worth a persons life. There can be other ways of improving attendance.
Excessive use of computers: It does affect a student's study if he is crazy playing AOE/CS. It does improve the confidence of the student and benefits him in his carreer, if he is using computers for academic purposes, or for expressing his opinion on the internet.
I was in a non IT branch, and I never had a problem sharing time between branch study and study of programming languages and other courses through Lecture Notes.The use of computers does give the diversity of thought needed in the present world.
And yeah, it is completely upto the student to join a NON-IIT's IT branch or an IIT's NON-IT branch, it's his decision, and there should be no regrets after a decision is made.
There is one aspect that people seem to have ignored. Some of my friends were discussing, how could at a place like IIT, where you have such a strong community, your friends could leave you to sulk alone, so that you have to resort to suicidal behaviour; but thats undeniably one of the ill effects of computers. Sure computers has its benifit, but getting sunk with your computers, whole day and night playing AOE/CS, and so on and/or chatting, leaves your soft skills and social fabric shattered. At the end of your cirriculum, you will hardly have any "real" friends (not just for having chai and samosa at canteen), who can give you the emotional support you need in such testing times. Obviously, if we argue that a person is mature in balancing time between friends and computer; its not true, or else he would also realise at the beginning of the course that, there would be some rules for the course which can't be bypassed (note: i am not condoning/debating about what IITs should follow with regards to attendance, etc)
If a person wasn't mature to decide if IITs' physics course is better or a comp course at some other engg college; hw won't mature in all the years, sitting in his hostel room day and night with his comp. This is not just a fictitious case, but the disturbing trend I saw in my juniors at kgp, with the advent of computers/internet
Actually, he did not sulk at all, at least not over a long time, so that his friends would notice. I left IITB this year, and the last I saw, he was valiantly participating on the online system we have and pushing ahead with his search service.
Wish he had just paid a little more attention to the curriculum, then everything would have been nice. It is just a case of misplaced priority, and computer happened to be his obsession. This one got all the attention because it was at IIT, and was about computers.
As for TOI, well...TOI is not worth commenting on. These are exactly the sort of journalists that gave Prof. G. E. Challenger his viewpoint on the profession.
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